Voices of the Greenbelt: Biodiversity in the Greenbelt with Deborah

Atreyu Lewis 00:01
Hi everybody, welcome back to Establish, brought to you by Shake Up the Establishment. We are a youth run nonpartisan Community Center nonprofit that focuses on translating knowledge within various topics of climate justice to make this information more accessible to those living in what is currently Canada. I’d like to take a moment to acknowledge that we have the privilege of living, working and thriving upon land that Indigenous peoples have lived and cared for, and continue to do so since time immemorial. We acknowledged that our address resides on treaty three land which is a territory of the Haudenosaunee, Anishinabewaki, Attiwonderonk, Mississauga’s, and Mississauga’s of the Credit First Nation. This episode is part of a larger project called Voices of the Greenbelt. This includes five podcast episodes, a mini documentary and visual workshops. This project has been supported by the Greenbelt Foundation. The Greenbelt Foundation’s grant and research activities are made possible by the generous support of the government Ontario, such support does not indicate endorsement by the Government of Ontario of the contents of this material.

Atreyu Lewis 00:56
My name is Atreyu Lewis, I use they/he pronouns and I’m a Two Spirit trans masculine nonbinary mix indigenous and racialized youth. I grew up in Toronto, and I am now currently situated in Tiohtià:ke, also known as Montreal, Quebec. I’m a public speaker, project manager and grassroots leader with BIPOC organizations, as well as taking part in independent research on decolonizing, methodologies, epistemologies, and promoting intersectionality and harm reduction today, in this episode, we will be speaking with Deborah McGregor, we will be discussing about diversity within the Greenbelt.

Atreyu Lewis 01:27
Thank you for joining us, maybe can you speak to a little bit on biodiversity or conservation efforts in Ontario and the Greenbelt? And do you think maybe historically, the government has tried to keep people away from natural spaces has that changed at all.

Deborah McGregor 01:45
I think historically, has always been about trying to keep people away. So not recognizing that people are actually part of the natural world, people are part of the ecosystem, people have relationships with animals, birds, and whatever happens to live there. So,there is this history, so I think it’s a lot. It’s sort of so embedded that people don’t even question it or think about it. If that area is to be conserved, and we’re trying to conserve the biodiversity. We can’t go there. That’s kind of what people think about biodiversity. And that’s, I mean, that was the theory and practice very hard to do that, as you’re building a highway, right through, you know, a conserved area or area that should be conserved.

Atreyu Lewis 02:30
Definitely. And for people who don’t know, biodiversity is of several layers, genes, individual species, communities of species, ecosystems. For Greenbelt regions, about 24% of it is in forests. And then 1% 12% is wetlands, most endangered or grasslands which is really 1% of the Greenbelt. So, it’s the Greenbelt really covers a lot of regions in Ontario, such as Oak Ridges Moraine, the Niagara escarpment and other parts of Ontario close to Lake Ontario even going up more towards Lake Simcoe and other areas. So maybe, could you speak on what does biodiversity conservation mean to you as an Indigenous environmentalist.

Deborah McGregor 03:15
So just building upon the conversation before, the other the other interesting thing about the Greenbelt area is that it’s also Carolinian forest. And where like, you look at a map of where the most species at risk are, it’s actually in First Nations communities. So that would be Walpole Island has the most species are at risk, because they have the intact ecosystem, and the Carolinian forest is so rare in southern Ontario. But that’s where you find actually the so they bear this an equitable burden in terms of keeping these species while everybody else continues to destroy. So, I did want to mention that, like they have this, this unique Carolinian forest that supports these species, the species that are also at risk. So, in terms of what is biodiversity conversation mean, to me, it means recognizing that fundamentally, it’s moving away from that thinking that humans are separate from nature, that somehow, now having said that, there are some people who probably who probably, I wouldn’t want your nature because their idea of nature is at its property, that it’s a resource to exploit human or human gain, and therefore, some nature and you can do that too. And other nature you don’t and that’s the area that we would serve and that’s the area that would be protected from humans, but I think about a biodiversity conservation is recognizing that humans are part of that conversation that humans have a responsibility to caretake and be in relation to those particular areas and everything else that lives in there.

Atreyu Lewis 04:56
Absolutely, I’m from Southern Ontario like Toronto and it’s considered when the most developed biodiverse regions, it often has a lot of urbanization. It’s there’s a lot of issues with like wildlife in southern Ontario, like how do we conserve it? How do we really protect it? The Greenbelt can help with that. But also, I really find that Indigenous conservation, and like Indigenous communities are also a huge part of that. And like you said, humans are a real integral component of biodiversity, they’re really a part of it. I feel like that’s the Eurocentric worldview. They really try to like governments and like Eurocentric politicians and everything, they try to keep us away from nature, and they just see it as ownership, not stewardship. So, speaking of more like urban settings, what is conservation? What does it look like in an urban setting?

Deborah McGregor 05:44
I think it’s, it looks similar, actually. So, when I walk along, or ride my bike along an area that they’re trying to restore, so this would be sort of around Glendon Sunnybrook Park, there’s the Don River, the tributaries that run into it, so they, so it looks like they try to block off area. So, there’s still very much that mentality, but at the same time, when people don’t kind of understand those basic things, like how they’re kind of interventions are being in those kinds of spaces is actually making things worse, even though they’re there to try to enjoy nature. They actually, I think, don’t even really know how to enjoy nature, like, how do you enjoy nature at the same time, that you’re protecting it and stewarding it and being a caretaker of it? So, I think I think there’s still a lot of difficulty that folks have with with that. But I think there’s increasing movement to try to recognize that people are an essential part of biodiversity and biological diversity, there’s attempts to get people out there, and interacting with and being in relation to, as opposed to being separate. And it’s a resource, I get to exploit it, I get to have my nature when I want it for this hour that I’m walking my dog and not think about it anymore, but to kind of buy to be better stewards, what are the kinds of restoration kind of activities can be do what can I do as an individual and as a collective are part of a part of an organization. So, in an urban setting, I will say that there’s still a huge was equity and justice issues with that as well. So, people of color aren’t as don’t have access to the same green spaces and conserve spaces, like they know this. And particularly in schools, like even in like when I’m riding my bike or walking along these spaces, it is very, it seems to be a very kind of white space. So, it’s very hard for other peoples to be able to, they’re excluded from these spaces just because of equity and justice issues like they don’t have access to or it’s very controlled access through through maybe through a school trip or something like that, right. And because they tend to be like Sunnybrook tends to be in a very high-income kind of neighborhood. And and they know this tree spaces people are healthier there because the trees filter pollution and smog and heat like that it doesn’t get as hot in the summer when there’s a heatwave. So,there is inequity and injustice in terms of how people interact with in an urban setting where the green spaces how they’re going to biologically conserve. So, if you have no access, how do you even start to learn or gain a caretaking responsibility? So there’s huge gaps in it. But that to me in my mind relates to equity injustice.

Atreyu Lewis 08:38
I totally agree. I think in a lot of urban settings, it really is hard to get that equity injustice. Because there’s so many different agendas happening within cities, municipalities, a lot of times communities, like usually marginalized communities are not heard. And the urbanization efforts and also even just environmental conservation workers like and people in the community they’re not. Their voices are it’s hard for their voices to be listened to. And I think the Greenbelt is it’s a safeguard it kind of mitigates affects development. It really is able to have protect every species and it’s able to at least give some areas even though there could be more definitely areas and like Toronto or like or even Niagara, like closer to there, where there can be more protected wildlife. How do you think urbanization of the Greenbelt or just in southern Ontario has affected the movement of wildlife?

Deborah McGregor 09:41
I think it’s affected their movement for sure. And if people if people don’t know how to relate to wildlife, whatever, whatever the wildlife is, birds, especially migratory birds, or animals, then there is an increase in what they call like human wildlife conflict, right? So, in a place like Toronto, when people see a coyote, oh my God, that’s just so terrifying. And I’m thinking, like, I can’t even imagine how terrifying it would be for the coyote, like there’s cars around. Animals get diseases from people and their pets because they don’t take because people don’t even take care of their pets properly. So, I do think it affects wildlife affects wildlife a lot, even if people don’t know they’re just being. I think a lot of the times they’re just really ignorant because they, because they don’t realize that they have responsibilities and obligations. So, they, they just think that the Greenbelt, the green space, is just for their use, they don’t recognize that it’s actually a relationship that needs to be cultivated, you have to make it your business to know what’s the ecology of the region, you should be thrilled to be able to see actual wildlife, Fox and coyotes are other animals as opposed to being terrified. So, I do find that like, when I walk around people, or I saw a coyote over there, it’s just terrifying. I’m like it was running away from you, like do you like people have so they’re so ignorant about how wildlife actually, how wildlife actually interact in the spaces that they’re in that they just assumed that like the enemy, they there isn’t really that, there really isn’t a caretaking or responsibility kind of relationship with them. Now, having said that, there are NGOs there are conservation groups, there are people who are trying to develop those relationships and educate. But really, for the most part, I think people haven’t figured out how urban sprawl, how development, how paving everything, impacts wildlife, like basically, you just, you just destroyed the home of a bunch of animals, like whatever birds are living in the trees, what No, and not even a consideration of what that means. And then wondering why whatever animals were there have more concentrated in smaller spaces to try to live in? Why there might be more human wildlife conflict or interactions?

Atreyu Lewis 12:09
Definitely, like, I think for the Greenbelt. Um, one thing that I find very interesting is that, even though I’m not really in the Greenbelt, where I go to in Toronto, but there’s, there’s train tracks near near the house, I usually go to and my family’s dog like me walk, there’s like a park. And then there’s coyotes that live in this train tracks, like I’m an area. And there was one time where my dog, like, my mom saw the coyote, but my dog didn’t. And yeah, it’s like, there’s this, there’s this fear that a lot of people have, they see things like that, they don’t understand that they are more afraid of you, or they’re more afraid of the urban sprawl or something, rather than just seeing you as a human. I feel like that’s something I’ve been reading about, like for indigenous teachings, there’s a lot of teachings where it’s like, animals and humans actually had to work together. But now in like a settler colonial era, you don’t really see that you don’t see that  understanding. Since the rise of human settlement, there’s definitely been, climate change has obviously been a huge issue, biodiversity loss, migration, like habitats become really unsurvivable due to like, like urbanization projects that are happening. Do you think this proximity of settlement like between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people, like does it affect distribution of resources maybe?

Deborah McGregor 13:31
So, distribution of resources, so people who, who are developers, people who have wealth and privilege are going to reap a lot of the resources as opposed to people who are marginalized and face or who are marginalized and vulnerable? Particularly, I would have to point out also indigenous peoples, because really, Southern Ontario is the traditional territories of Indigenous peoples, and you’re not really having a say, in terms of what’s happening there. So, it’s, it’s either the traditional territories, or there’s treaties, or people still have an interest and in what’s happening in the Greenbelt, but they’re not, but they’re looked at as interest groups. They’re not really looked at as rights holders or people who actually want to govern and be part of decision making in the Greenbelt. They’re just some people that we have to talk to, because we want to build this highway or have this development. They’re not really engaged as leaders and as people who had authority and jurisdiction, like when Indigenous peoples had authority and jurisdiction and governed and lived in what would be called the Greenbelt area. It was biologically diverse. It was people live there and, you know, you didn’t have 100 species at risk. So, there’s something about Indigenous people’s governance in the territories or in the Greenbelt area, that that would be really helpful for biological conversation.

Atreyu Lewis 15:02
Definitely, I think, Southern Ontario like for treaties, I feel like there’s a lot of when we talk about treaties and Ontario or like any real, any region really, it’s often seen as like an artifact rather than actual law, actual governance. Like, it’s really, there’s that interpretation that is like a huge injustice to Indigenous populations in Ontario or like in any region that their home to and that’s something I’ve seen, we’re in McGill, like there’s really no treaties there. It’s really like a huge narrative of conquest. And it’s really frustrating, because there’s so much urban sprawl in Montreal and like Montreal, and like Mont Royal. I don’t think in terms of tourism, it’s, as I feel like in Toronto, there’s a specific element of tourism that comes into play when we talk about, like certain parks, or like areas of wildlife and like urban settings. So, like we said, humans have this huge role in conservation in biodiversity. Do you think there’s any responsible tourism in the Greenbelt?

Deborah McGregor 16:13
I think there is, if you want to call, like hiking, like, let’s say, the Bruce Trail, which goes all the way down through the Niagara Escarpment, that, that I see that a lot more being promoted. And I have to say that with the pandemic, when really the only kind of safe place to be around other people was outside, that there was an increased number of people who, who wanted to go outside who wanted to be around the beaches who wanted to be in those kinds of spaces. But I do know that there were stories that where people didn’t know how to do that, like they didn’t know how to, if you go into these spaces, you have to take your garbage. You don’t litter up the beach. You know, like there were municipalities I don’t know when it was the first nation in Greenbelt area had to close their beach because people people really want it to connect with with nature, they really wanted to. Like, to me, that’s how I’m thinking about this kind of tourism, but they didn’t know how to be like, they didn’t know how to do it in a in a good way, even though they wanted to, they had no idea how to do it. People started to kind of turn to nature, and the outdoors and Greenspaces during the pandemic because it was safe. What I hope people do is they continue that but learn how to be in those kinds of spaces respectfully and not make a mess and not leave your garbage and, you know, kind of recognizers appropriate ways to be in those spaces. And but we need to teach that to people because they don’t know where they’re going to access that Right.

Atreyu Lewis 17:44
Definitely. When you speak of, I think the pandemic and nature and wildlife. I remember in first lockdown my mom and me we were like really referencing the there was a PNAS article that was saying how during the lockdowns, there was a global air pollution decline. And that’s something that was really interesting because I didn’t really think of like pollution and air quality, like kind of how that was before because if like, like before the pandemic I was, it was all about just school and like, just like a general like domestic routine, there wasn’t really a lot of nature incorporated in my life or if there was like I went to a park, I didn’t really think about those things. But since the pandemic has started, like, I’ve gone on so many walks, I’ve gone on I’ve done a foraging like it’s been, it’s easier because yeah, outside, you feel kind of safer, like because of the air quality indoors and we were told about that. That’s definitely a reason to be more aware about biodiversity, and like pollution and that, like those types of things. So, as I’m going to ask you now about, like ecosystems and how there’s often a disruption that occurs like a new ecosystem is there’s a new arrival in it, to ecosystems can be impacted. When we talk about predator prey, or like life cycles and ecosystems, maybe what do you have to say about the effects of climate change and it doesn’t impact species, endangered species?

Deborah McGregor 19:17
I mean, I think one of the ways that people think about it is how habitat and how ecosystems are impacted. So what what a what a species might need in order to survive or flourish in a particular ecosystem, like all of that’s going to impact habitat, and well, being particular, whatever they are, whether they’re fish, whether they’re birds, whether they’re animals, I think the other challenge that comes is when you is when you so for example, ticks, people see a lot more of those now, or different species getting into the Great Lakes that affect the fish, different insects that are coming that like so for example, probably more so in northern Ontario is a gypsy moths. So those are invasive that came from, they came from Europe, and then they were brought to the United States, but because it’s been warmer, but getting further north, and because they’re their eggs, or their larva don’t get killed, because the winters aren’t cold enough, they just decimate everything that, in fact, affects everything because it’s hotter, because there’s no leaves on the trees because they eat all the leaves. So,these kinds of species, they impacted ecosystem and a habitat, not just even a single species. So, any one of these can impact a whole number of species in different ways. So, climate change has been really devastating in terms of different in terms of species at risk, or endangered species. And so,there’s all kinds of different ways that species, even those that aren’t endangered, that are impacted by climate change, in terms of that ecosystem, their habitat, and being out competed for food, or just being killed by some of these, some of these other species that are moving north. Because of the because of the climate changing and being more accommodating for them.

Atreyu Lewis 21:08
I’m glad you mentioned that. Since when I was doing of my own research for the greenbelt and like different species in it. There’s been some like records from the wrong like historical ones that show many species of fish are actually moving up tomorrow northern wild waters, which used to be too cold for them and with the Greenbelt I feel like this can also help kind of, like keep track of these type of patterns for species. Definitely, Biodiversity humans are so impacted by it, there’s like a huge, like from the air, the food, the water. We’re all like impacted by biodiversity loss, humans, animals, all species, like in terms of Yeah, like air quality. Like there’s no fruits or nuts without bees pollinate. Like, if there’s crashing food systems, and there’s many more, and even interactions in ecosystems that are complex. It can lead to like real long term fast spreading impacts. So, what would you say maybe to others who aren’t aware of biodiversity is influence on wellbeing?

Deborah McGregor 22:13
Think I would say that climate change, I’m going to put this in the context of climate change isn’t going to go away. And what we do know is that because it just happened when there was the heatwave in Montreal is a people who didn’t have access to green space or where there wasn’t like canopy from trees. And they were the ones who suffered the most, that’s where most of the deaths were. So there’s a science to show this. You need to have it in order, like, well, literally to survive when these dramatic sort of weather events occur. We also know that, you know, being outside and being looking at a distance because we’re spending so much time in front of a screen is actually really, really bad for your eyes and really, really bad for your brain over time because you need certain kinds of light in the daylight outside. And, you know, and then when you’re in nature at night, it’s dark, because it shouldn’t be dark. So, it actually helps people I guess regulate sort of your regular sleep wake kind of cycle, being outside and being in green space and biodiversity can help with that. But people cannot be healthy if the planet isn’t, and the planet isn’t going to be healthy if people aren’t, because of that relationship, that close relationship there. And biodiversity is a huge is a huge part of that, and it’s very much tied to are very much tied to our well-being even if we’re sitting inside. And we’re not necessarily interacting with what we might call what I’m calling biodiversity is, let’s say nature, the natural world, you’re still benefiting from it, because you’re still eating from it, you’re still breathing the air. So even if you’re not aware of it, you still are benefiting from it and the more there is of it, the more I think collective individual, and community well-being that there’ll be and ideally planetary wellbeing because really, the planet is being threatened right now. It’s not going well and so, if it doesn’t go well for the planet, it’s not going to go well, for us as people.

Atreyu Lewis 24:18
I agree. I think forming like more personal connections with nature and learning about the species are just some of the ways that like Ontarians and like other in humans can really just begin to engage in nature, understand why we need to promote protect biodiversity, and how, just like exploring what grant the Greenbelt has to offer, voicing their concerns about the lack of protection plans. There are many ways to get involved that I found like there’s citizen science programs, there’s, you can track distribution, like trends and species like you can, so you can understand kind of how wildlife interacts, how species interact with urban sprawl, or anything like that. So, can you maybe describe what it means maybe to form from like, an indigenous perspective, even to like form more personal connections to nature?

Deborah McGregor 25:17
One of the things I do in my teaching is just send people outside and learn how to listen to nature. What do you see this time of year is quite dramatic, like I had my class do this. So, what they’re hearing and seeing outside in January is different than now like right now, there’s different birds, you actually can hear them all day, I didn’t, let’s say hear them at two o’clock in the afternoon when it was minus 35 outside, but now I do. So, I think getting people to start connecting to the natural world. Again, even if you’re kind of inside, some people were scared to go outside some people as part of the pandemic, you can still see the moon, you can still see the sun and develop some kind of understanding and relationship with them as well. So,to me that people are able to do that, one of the ways that I try to try to do it and teaching as an educator is through the land acknowledgement. So, it doesn’t matter where you are on the Greenbelt, it’s going to be different whether you’re more of Southwest or more southeast, in the Greenbelt, if that makes any sense. And because what you’re saying in the lineup, DOS was acknowledging the people, so you need to know there were Indigenous people there and they caretake the land, they were taking care of it and you, and I are descendants of that. So, I remind I asked people, what kind of ancestor are you going to be? Are you how are you going to caretake this land for future generations? How are you going to relate to the nonhuman world so land acknowledgement? Isn’t just these are the people that are here, you don’t even know who they are, like, Haudenosaunee what does that even mean? Like? It’s actually six nations? Do you? Like what are the treaties that we’re here? Because it’s what the treaties do is they lay out people’s behavior in the area, like how are you supposed to behave in this particular area, but it’s also the nonhuman world, the land, the animals, land as a capital L is having agency and having a say, like Mother Earth kind of thing, so that they start to understand that the natural world is actually very personal as well. Like they have a personal relationship. But these other entities can also have relationship with you as well it’s not one way. So, I think that’s one thing that I always try to remind people to do is his is to understand that this actually requires you to connect to the natural world and learn how to listen to the natural world.

Atreyu Lewis 27:33
Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, definitely for me. I’ve been practicing more of like rekindling Indigenous understandings of seasons and wildlife and how we can like that circular relationship, that communal relationship with wildlife where if you do take, if you like hunt moose meat or any type of meat or you always put tobacco down you always put a spirit plate those type of things. Like if you are having a feast, I made recently I did a bear moon feast in February, we’d had like moose meat while rice, the whole thing, soup and Bannock. And it was a really nice community thing we did, because we had community stuff, all really pretty local resources like food supply. And it was just like a really nice, like ceremonial thing to do with Indigenous youth or in Montreal and a few non-Indigenous youth who are really, they’re really respectful, appreciate what we’re doing. And they’re there in the movements in their own way. And I think it was really interesting, the 13 grandmother moons around a shell of a teachings are the one I’ve been using and I’m actually going to go get sap in this month as well. And try and get that from sugar moon. So definitely having that real personal connection, I feel like from an Indigenous perspective is even more because like land acknowledgments, right? It’s like, not only do we we all should, like it should be mandatory now, I mean, I find it shocking that there’s like still some organizations that don’t have it and it’s just really frustrating. It’s like, that’s bare minimum, I think, for acknowledging Indigenous, like conservation, and stewardship. But that’s kind of my own way I form personal connections I love like, yeah, what ancestors are we gonna be? Are we going to be, are we going to be repeating colonialism? Or are we actually going to be unlearning? Or are we actually going to engage, reconnect, as well as like, live in the present too. So, I guessjust the finish off, how can maybe residents have within the Greenbelt, indigenous, non-Indigenous, protect conservation of wildlife and plants in their backyard, for example, planting identifying species, that type of thing?

Deborah McGregor29:54
I think other than than going out for walks in different spaces and trying to learn from the natural world like that’s how I would frame it, you’re trying to learn from the from the natural world itself, using your senses and paying attention is I do think if you have the capacity you have the space to to grow, then you’re going to start to see a bizarre insects that hadn’t been there before. And because it’s actually a season, like, literally, you can see what happens in the spring. And what happens in the fall, what tends to arrive. You know, at different times of the year, things that I hadn’t seen before things I saw last summer that I hadn’t seen before, like a showing up in the garden, because of the growing season, like theoretically like its actually kind of short. How do you like what I’ve done with my backyard, worked with some folks at York who are trying to recover pollinators, because they’re really impacted by climate change, and pesticides, and everything else. So. So it looks kind of wild, like you have to let go, the idea that you’re going to have a nice little manicured lawn, and just go okay, I’m just going to let it kind of look like this because it’s actually going to support pollinators. And insects, like we actually need to have insects, a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to eradicate them. And that you actually need to have
them you don’t start cleaning your yard till a certain time when they’ve woken up and they’re starting to fly around. A lot of people start shoving all these things in whatever their kind of bags, those yard waste bags, so I leave mine alone, until you know 10 or 12 degrees when they start waking up and they ‘re flying around. And then then you can start tidying up. But I just, I just worked with folks and then try it some of it was already there like Goldenrod and tried to grow the plants that were actually going to support the pollinators, which in turn, support the garden anyway, the cord butterfly support hummingbirds support these. So, I just started to grow different things. And it means you have to like think about your space in a different way. You have to think about it as a shared space. It’s not like my property. And I’m going to do this. It’s like no, actually, it’s a shared space, different things. We’re actually encroaching on top of other beings space, like that’s urban sprawl. That’s what we’re doing. That’s what cities do. So, I think it requires a different kind of attitude. And there are things that people can do. Even if you don’t have the opportunity of having a backyard. There is a balcony you can still grow things. You can participate in community gardens. There’s one year I am I went there and picked raspberries when you’re nobody was picking them. So, I think there’s different ways that people can contribute and participate. And I think what it does is it allows you to pay attention. It allows you to just go and you know what, from year to year, this was a really hot summer I had to like I have rain barrels. I had to like water the garden a lot more so that you start to notice changes that maybe you wouldn’t have paid attention to if you weren’t growing things and growing things anybody can do any age little kids, older people. Any and you pay attention into what’s happening there. And not only are you sharing the space, recognize that squirrels and skunks and whatnot aren’t your enemy, like expect that we are in their territory, I had to I had to make my peace with squirrels. And because there’s four of them, and they’re very territorial, they keep the other ones away. And so, so they there are going to read th garden sometimes, right? Because as far as they’re concerned, it’s their garden, and I’m the one who’s encroaching. So, I think it’s like having a different kind of attitude towards growing things and who you’re sharing that with and recognizing that humans are the ones that are encroaching all over, like different wildlife all over the bees all over the butterflies, places that they would be growing and thriving, and raising, raising their young. If that makes any sense.

Atreyu Lewis 33:53
Oh, definitely, it definitely makes so much sense. I think I love encroachment, the word of that. Because for me, like when I’ve walked my dog before, you know, dogs are all about squirrels, a lot of them they love chasing them. And I didn’t think before I’m like, maybe the squirrel doesn’t like this, maybe the squirrel would rather not be chased and just like be in the park and get what it needs. So definitely being more mindful of like when I’m interacting, even just squirrels or anything, to kind of not encroach too much in their space, really. So, I don’t let the dog get like in their space that much anymore or just generally like when I’m out in the community or in nature, I really think about those things a lot more. But thank you so much for sharing today. Is there anything else you’d like to add before we wrap up for today?

Deborah McGregor 34:44
Um, I think a key to biodiversity is supporting Indigenous people and their way of life and even thinking about things like language revitalization as part of that. So, a lot of what we see with the United Nations and other spaces, like I mentioned, in Canada, really where most of the species at risk are, is in First Nation communities, like, that’s where they are most of the most of the time in Canada. And what they found is indigenous peoples caretake, about 20% of the world’s landmass, but that’s where 80% of the biodiversity is. So Indigenous people are doing something right that rest of the planet are not like and,
and the other thing about those spaces, that 20%, that indigenous peoples caretake, for lack of a better word, manage or control, some people would say, but I say caretake and steward, where That’s where 80% of the biodiversity is on the planet, is also where most Indigenous languages are spoken. So, there’s a connection there that people are starting to kind of figure out. So, to be icy, you know, supporting Indigenous language revitalization language efforts, cultural revitalization is critical for biodiversity. It’s good at every single level, including internationally and for planetary health. So hopefully, that’s food for thought. And I appreciate you having this conversation with you and meeting you.

Atreyu Lewis 36:10
For sure. I thank you. Yes. I’m so glad we were able to have you on this podcast and this interview. I think yeah, your knowledge has been really amazing. Even though I’m more like the history field more that type of it was nice to get like environmental science type of perspective on biodiversity and Indigenous stewardship.

Atreyu Lewis 36:34
Thank you, Deborah McGregor for taking the time to share insightful perspectives with us. Thank you, our audience for joining us in this establish episode. If you like what you hear, check out our work at Shake Up The Establishment. You can find us on our website or Instagram to continue learning about important topics like environmental stewardship, social justice issues and political accountability. That’s S H A K E U P T H E E S T A B . O R G. You can also find us under the same name on Instagram. To learn more about the Greenbelt, visit the Greenbelt foundation online.